Ejaculation: Negative Effects on Internal Energy Work

[srt202_shooter]

Dear All:

I practice a simple qi gong exercise called Zhan Zhuang.
I would like to hear your thoughts on whether ejaculation
will negatively affect internal energy practice.

An aside: I hear that some NFL players refrain from sexual activities
the night before game time and boxers months before a prime fight.

Thanks,
Butch

[doc]

Well, "Shooter", talk about an explosive topic. Can't wait to see what the gang comes up with on this one.

[daodejing]

Ejaculation causes significant amounts of son's of essence (jing) to leave the body. This drains kidney yang qi, and in order to resupply the kidneys, they draw up energy from the secondary vessels in the legs (yinqiao mai, yangqiao mai, yinwei mai, and yangwei mai) to replenish the kidneys. This is why you get weak in the legs after excessive sexual activity. That happens immediatly. What happens over a bit of time is that jing is spent to replenish the qi in said vessels.

This can impair energy work because many forms of qigong focus on the principle of Three Flowers Reach the Top, which means that the three treasures (jing qi and shen) reach the top of the body to nourish the brain (Baihui, Du 20). This is done by first refraining from sexual activity to builup alot of jing in the body. The jing is led upwards to the Huang Ting (an area in the abdomen between the navel and the xiphoid process) where it is converted into qi. The qi is then led up the Chong Mai (the thrusting vessel, essentially the spinal cord) directly into the brain. Once there the qi is refined into shen.

There is one more step to this process which is to turn the shen into emptiness and crush the emptiness. By the time you get around to that you're at the final stages of enlightenment training.

But to get back to the topic, this process requires ALOT of qi. Which means you have to conserve ALOT of jing. Which means you normally abstain for more than 100 days. Usually a few years all tolled.

The reason athletes refrain is the weakening of the legs which results from depleted kidney yang. When your refrain you have much more qi to work with.

[srt202_shooter]

Can't you just do more qi gong to replenish your qi and in turn jing?

[doc]

God I am amused.

This is from Dr Lin's website. You just have to read the whole thing. More on this later, from a scientific perspective...

Dear Dr.Lin,

Your site was great! I have now learn that sometimes size
does'nt matter if u know what i mean. The natural penile
enlargement that u mention is a real break for my sexual
urges although i am still virgin now in 20. With your info.
given i can now control my desires n boost my martial art
performance. However the main issue that i am going to ask
are , 1. can jing overloaded n result in wet dreams? 2.
what causes wet dreams n how to stop it cause i really dont
want to loose my jing alot , for ur info from teenage time
till now i have limited my self for mastubration from 3-4
times a week to now once a week to preserve my jing ,
so preservation of jing is important for me to stored my
chi. 3. does jing capacity effect chi in martial art or
chi gong? 4. is there a method to develop both jing n chi?
i.e. if i ejaculate how to replenish my jing n chi?
finally 5 . will there be any effect if i do not ejaculate
for a year?


1. can jing overloaded n result in wet dreams?
yes! for young men. The brain in response to excessive jing (testosterone or sperm, one word two meanings) will signal a hard erection via spinal cords (sacral) S2-S4 during a deep sleep, that produces the stress (strain) signals to feed the interneuron switches in Spinal Cord T10-L2 from the sexual nerves in the prostate. There are two mechanisms to trigger orgasmic ejaculation - one is the direct refelxion of the sympathetic sexual (orgasmic) nerves in response to the stress reaction in the prostate due to a hard penile erection, and another is from the brain which, after receiving a stress signal from the prostate via T10-L2, sends a sequence of action potential via the interneuron switches and sympathetic sexual nerves to the prostate's ejaculation controller.
2. what causes wet dreams n how to stop it cause i really dont want to loose my jing alot , for ur info from teenage time till now i have limited my self for masturbation from 3-4 times a week to now once a week to preserve my jing, so preservation of jing is important for me to stored my chi.
Excessive testosterone or sperm will alert the brain to release the internal pressure in the prostate and testicles. Biological action of mimic testosterone or artificial growth hormones (red meat!) on the prostate, pornography, and sexual-associated vision/hearing/physical stimulation will increase wet dreams. Reducing testosterone level in the prostate area will kill wet dream. On the other hand, a weak parasympathetic nervous function in the prostate, which can not help secure (tighten) the prostate ejaculation valve, will result in semen leakage or wet dream too ( how about urinary leakage and wet bed!).
How to prevent wet dream from happening? you can reduce it but can not stop it. Powering the parasympathetic nervous function and reducing the sympathetic nervous function in the prostate will naturally reduce wet dream frequency. Eat more nuts, seeds, beans, fruit vegetables and fruits; cut down red meat and cheese consumption; have more exercises and circulate your Chi in your microcosmic orbit - recycle your sexual energy back to your brain. You are normal to have wet dreams 2 or 3 times a week at this age of 20 if you have never masturbated. But, you can reduce it by burning out more testosterone. In fact, if you don't have wet dream and have never masturbated to release yourself, you should worry about your testicular function. For a health young man, you can ejaculate 2 or 3 times to prevent your brain's testosterone negative feedback controller from locking up, unless you are very weak.
I think you are OK!
3. does jing capacity effect chi in martial art or chi gong?
Yes, It affects the syntheses of acetylcholine (Yin Chi) and dopamine (Yang Chi) in the brain. Martial art or Chi Gong (ChiKong) requires both Yin and Yang chi to act and react. If you don't have sufficient Yin, you can not circulate your chi in your acupuncture channels. All the nervous systems, sensory or motor, sympathetic or parasympathetic, requires acetylcholine. That is why Yin Chi is the mother of all Chi.
When dopamine is converted to norepinephrine and epinephrine ( both forms the Wei Chi - the defense Chi), your body becomes alert, ready to react. When Jing is too high, it generate too much stress in the pelvic area, unless you can burn it into bioelectric power to charge the local parasympathetic nerves and circulate the bioelectricity (the Chi in the acupuncture network.) back to the brain via the spine and Governing Vessel. This jing-chi translation can be done by a sequence of expanding action on the parasympathetic and sensory nerves in the bladder and tail bone, which share the same interneurons in S2-S4. Don't contract the prostate muscle which will produce excessive DHT from the testosterone burning, resulting in over-stimulation of the prostate for ejaculation. Contraction of the prostate (PC) muscle will trigger the sympathetic/sensory nervous circuits in T10-L2, leading to orgasm. This is why women can achieve orgasm easier with the sexual chikong contraction of their PC muscle during sex. Please read http://www.actionlove.com/love/ch-sex.htm and http://www.actionlove.com/cases/case9171.htm .
Note that contraction of the muscle will cause testosterone to burn into bioelectric energy and DHT, both will promote the local sensory and motor nervous function. It is good for women since it increases the vaginal sexual response (orgasm!), not good for men since it promotes the prostate sexual response (ejaculation!). If you want to prolong your intercourse without ejaculation or re-circulate your sexual energy, you can only use the ligaments and muscles around the bladder and tail bone to burn testosterone into the bioelectric power to charge the parasympathetic/sensory nervous circuits in S2-S4. This trick of Jing-Chi translation is the basic principle of my sexual chikong breathing as described in
http://www.actionlove.com/love/chikong.htm
http://www.actiontao.com/image/anal.htm
Many readers, after mastering this trick, can make love for longer than a hour without ejaculation.
http://www.actionlove.com/cases/7715.htm
http://www.actionlove.com/cases/case2res.htm
and more examples in
http://www.actionlove.com/extra/kungfu.htm

This is why Sexual ChiKong Intercourse is a most powerful lovemaking technique for men and women's multiple orgasms.

4. is there a method to develop both jing n chi?
Jing-Chi translation can be done in two ways - one is in the brain to help acetylcholine and dopamine syntheses (requiring DHEA and testosterone; DHEA - the Kidney Yin; testosterone - the Kidney Yang); the other is in the pelvic area, as described in the Item 3. Since the pelvic cavity, particularly around the prostate, traps a high level of testosterone due to the high density of testosterone receptors in the local tissues. If you don't translate it to Chi, it will promote libido and ejaculation. If you can not convert it all, you have to ejaculate to release the pelvic congestion and to unlock the brain's testosterone negative feedback controller. That is why optimal ejaculation can promote testosterone/sperm production, and then increase your Jing and Chi immediately. Foods and dietary supplements which contain brain's chemicals and hormone-building substances, are essential for develop Jing and Chi. This is why the old Taoists developed herbal formulas and recipes for Chinese Emperors and nobles who "owned" more than 10 wives and had sex very night with wives. These formulas have modified generation by generation, as the Chinese herbal medicines. Our PeniSOS and ViaGrowth products have been formulated based up these old Chinese formulas for the Chinese Emperors/Empresses. They can help old emperors last longer and ejaculate more without experiencing sexual exhaustion. Image that a 60-year old emperor had to have sex with 2-5 20-year old ladies in one night. They must have some ways to help the old emperor hold erection for 1 or 2 hours without ejaculation. Yes, once you master my sexual chikong breathing and the principle of sexual orgasm, you can last for 2 hours without ejaculation. The tricks are, (1) don't let your urethra be over stimulated, and (2) power your penis to an extreme size to create a high penile blood pressure to block the urethral nerve communication between the glans penis and prostate. Once the old emperor cold hold his ejaculation back and his erection up, then he made his younger partner come again and again, so that he could extract her sexual energy from her Epicenter (the female prostate) to his tail bone (the first acupuncture point of the Governing Vessel) via his glans penis (parasympathetic/sensory nerves via S2-S4) with his sexual chikong (Microcosmic) Chi circulation. Practicing the Microcosmic Chi Circulation with my 3-point excitation love position during sex can make women come in a very short time while men can experience multiple orgasms without ejaculation. When I have my wife orgasm with this love position while I am practicing the Microcosmic Chi Orbiting, I feel a sequence of burning sensation waves traveling along my spine from my tail bone to my brain. After sex (even with ejaculation), I become fully awake. This is why we like to make love in the morning every day when testosterone is very high. Every morning, we want to burn the testosterone in our sex organs (my penis, her clitoris and G-spot/urethral spongy tissues) to charge our Yin and Yang Chi, and keep our love tools polishing with the super hormone DHT (dihydrotestosterone) produced by the testosterone burning, so that I can keep our natural penile/clitoral/G-spot enlargement working. We both take our ViaGrowth-IV and drink our Fibra + Ginseng tea daily to retain high levels of acetylcholine, dopamine, serotonin, DHEA and testosterone with a well-balanced estrogen. Sex let us recharge our body and retain our Chi levels like 20-year young people. This is the most important result of our Jing-Chi translation practice via sexual intercourse and orgasm. Our another discovery is the natural penile/clitoral/G-spot enlargement which can be done by burning sufficient testosterone in the local tissues when the penile erection and G-spot/Clitoral engorgement become extremely hard. The spongy tissues in the penis, clitoris and g-spot will become more and more erectile and inflatable. Women can not achieve orgasm without burning testosterone in the clitoris or urethral spongy tissues (G-spot and Epicenter). This is why clitoral orgasm makes the clitoris become too sensitive to touch ( the resting potential - the Chi, in the clitoral sensory nerves become overcharged by burning too testosterone in the tiny clitoral shaft and glans!). Our third discovery is that women practice our Sexual Chikong Intercourse can narrow down her vaginal size and produce a powerful suction force on the penis during sex. After more than 26-year lovemaking and having two daughters, my wife vagina is tighter than that in her 20s.

5 . will there be any effect if i do not ejaculate for a year?
Your testosterone negative feedback controller will be locked up and downregulated. That is, the lockup threshold becomes too low to have your testicular function worked properly. Your body will have a high level of Wei Chi (extreme Yang), too stressful, not good for social life, due to a long-term accumulation of Yang and a long-term depletion of orgasmic hormone Oxytocin - the emotional and social hormone. In addition, The semen in the seminal vesicles is like a pond of dead water. If you have never ejaculated for a week, your semen become very yellowish and very thickly creamy and particulate. If you have retained the semen for a long term, said several years, like Buddhism Monks, the particulate semen (containing minerals) may form a lot of solid pearls (I call them the seminal stones), like kidney stones. This is why Buddhism monks can leave certain number of pearls after cremating. The seminal stones are fire-resistant. Buddhism uses the seminal stones to symbolize the degree of how a monk resists sexual temptation. Statistically, the average life span of monks is shorter than that of married men who enjoy sex. Well, the Chinese history said "The Yellow Emperor around 2600 B.C. had more than thousand young wives and lived up to 160 years." (I like this: Love longer Live Longer!) The Taoists have considered he was the founder of the Chinese nation and Taoism. The Chinese sexual bible called "Suu Nui Ching - the Plain Girl" was written according to his conversation with his three female sexual advisors and two medical doctors. You may wonder why Taoists have considered sex can prolong life and health. Suu Nui Ching advises men how to use intercourse to cure health misalignments for both sexes, and how to extract sexual energy from young women to prolong male life. I like that ideas, but unfortunately, I have only one old wife.

Generally, men after middle age may dry up the seminal vesicles if they don't eat enough sexual nutrients. Then, the reproduction/sexual function will naturally diminish. Of course, no more semen is available for ejaculation. A lot of men ejaculate nothing or blood if they are forced to ejaculate. Furthermore, a lot of men start to experience the prostate disorder after midlife. One of the prostate disorder results from a lack of the prostate flushing (ejaculation). So, an optimal ejaculation is essential for health and sexual function.


DID YOU GET THAT???

New, at the Shaolin Chan Wu Xue Yuan, intensive programs in Sexual Chi Gong Intercourse. The princesses at church shall learn a new concept of worship...

[cassius]

I once saw a tcm guy, talking on the discovery channel about this.

To put it simply

"Woman have sex ten times in one night, she fine"

"Man have sex ten times in one night, he die"

[doc]

I've gone out with a lot of fine women.

[Fa Hui]

During my first few months as a monk, I would have a lot of dreams about sex and naked women. None of them ever turned out to be wet dreams though. After a while though, they finally quit. All the meditation practice allowed my self to break through the more coarse forms of sexual desire. Now it's just really subtle; sometimes so much that I can't even tell it's sexual desire.

But that was definitely an interesting read, Doc.

[doc]

Fa Hui, what do you know about ejaculation, having been a monk and all.

And, like, are you allowed to have sex now, since you're no longer a monk?

Just curious....

[Fa Hui]

You know what they say about curosity and cats. (Like that has anything do with anything).

Yes. To answer your question, I am allowed. The problem is when I tell women that I used to be a monk, they just kind of lose interest for some reason. I haven't been able to explain it. But I haven't been able to explain why women do anything that they do.

But you can probably be completely awakened and still be totally mystified on why women do the things they do.

Explains why most monastic orders are celibate.

All you really have to do, I guess, is watch out for the nuns.

Especially the ones w/ claws.

Hell, they all have claws.

[doc]

The problem is when I tell women that I used to be a monk, they just kind of lose interest for some reason. I haven't been able to explain it. But I haven't been able to explain why women do anything that they do.

Don't feel bad man. I tell women I've got two monks living with me. And, that I go to China to train with them. You'd think they'd find that interesting, and different, from the usual bozo out here who spends his nights drinking, and his days dealing cards.

They don't.

Ignorance is everywhere. Get used to it.

[doc]

Fa Hui, time for a thread on what women want in men???

LOL. Now that would be inflammatory...

[daodejing]

Can't you just do more qi gong to replenish your qi and in turn jing?

Well, not exactly. You can replenish postnatal Jing and Qi by eating properly, not overexerting yourself, and doing qigong. But you can't replenish prenatal Jing (yuan jing) or yuan qi. At least, not from outside sources. You can replenish yuan qi by conserving jing and transforming jing into qi.

As for what someone said about nocturnal emissions, when I went celibate to help cultivate my qi I had to abstain even in my dreams. At first I was having quite a few sexual dreams, and the only way to avoid nocturnal emission was to literally realize I was dreaming and stop engaging in said activities. Usually at that point I would go off flying, or just wake up. But then lucid dreams are a whole nother can of worms..........

Fa Hui, I empathize. You can be as self-realized as guatama and still not understand women. We're not supposed to understand them. We're just supposed to love them, listen to them, and care for them as we should love, listen, and care for all life. Including ourselves. If understanding happens to blossom out of that, well hey that's great. Just don't expect it to happen. Expectation can be one of the worst forms of emotional disturbance.

[doc]

Oh. I thought we were supposed to bang em and leave em.

Glad I LEARNED something today!

:)

[Steve]

That fact that this thread was started by a guy named "Shooter" still bothers me.

[Fa Hui]

For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though.

Well, it's not that I want to understand women. I don't really care all that much. They make themselves difficult.

Fa Hui, what do you know about ejaculation, having been a monk and all.

Well, I know how hard it is to resist having one; especially if you already know what it's like to have one.

In my first 3 or 4 months after ordaining, I began to dreams about sex and women so much that I thought I was gonna insane. Not to mention the fact that there was this really attractive 20 yr old French nun that seemed to like to talk to me. That didn't make it any easier.

Damn French.

But I persisted with my meditation and kept trying to understand my own desires. Eventually the sexual desire calmed and the French nun realized it's not a good thing for monks and nuns to flirt; even in a subtle way. In anycase, I learned two valuable lessons here: one is that celibacy in your twenties is very difficult and for some damn near impossible; and two, French women are far more dangerous then their American counterparts.

That's the moral.

And I'm sticking to it.

For now at least.

[doc]

For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though.
Now, that's a quote.

[agreenknight]

Interesting, hmm, well, I have noticed when I concentrated on breathing sexual desires become lessoned. I'm saving myself till marriage. The thing is you also have std's such as AIDs around, and that's can't be good for the chi. You may want to look into Double your dating series. I get his newsletters, and they have some interesting concepts on the subject. Also, I read men's health which has some articles about it.

Just curious is there anyway, to generate more energy for both partners? I suppose concentrating on a woman leaves less time for martial arts. Also, I have heard, that once the guy dies, the woman is usually follows suit.

[doc]

Men's Health magazine is ****. Same crap every month. If you need dating advice, you're at the right place. The gang here know all.

Just don't ask me, unless you really want to get into trouble...

[agreenknight]

Hey man, nothing wrong with being a virgin. I have no business with a woman, right now when I don't make enough to support myself. I simply like to be well researched. Anyway, I drink alot of water. though.

Like the old saying, if you want a friend get a dog. Also, i've believe it said people with pets live longer. Not for the same reasons though.

I was wondering would massaging each other help? Is it the chemical release or the exercise that does it. If it's the exercise then massage could help do the same thing.

[Beginner's Mind]

I have to ask - what kind of women do you guys encounter?

Neither I nor any of my (female) friends would be put off someone because they had been a monk - quite the opposite! Women aren't that different to men, there are ignorant ones and there are ones who want to find someone who can challenge them and introduce them to new things, mentally and spiritually (and physically!)

Noticed this review in Amazon of a book called The Tao of Health, Sex and Longevity. I don't think she was in favour of conserving jing.....

"For those in search of anything and for those who will believe anything, this is the book for you. The diet and exercise advice are consistent, by and large, with what all of us have heard before, with the exception of recommendations for the eating of undercooked red meat and poultry. The advice on a man retaining his fluids ruined what had been a wonderful relationship between me and my boyfriend. He belives most self-help books and bought into the fluid retention without question. The whole notion of retaining a man's fluids to enhance their health and longevity is reckless and clearly a roadmap to ruin an otherwise great relationship. The book is filled with utter nonsense and should be read by those who are able to think for themselves so that they do not ruin relationships. It would be interesting to hear from those in the medical community as it relates to the book's advice because the advice is not backed up by studies or research."

[doc]

You don't retain your health by "retaining your fluids", nor will you live very long if you continue to eat undercooked poultry.

I'm strictly amazed at the **** that is published. And, more amazed by a society that doesn't question, and just believes what they read. Because it's in print.

[Fa Hui]

Usually it was the massaging that would get me in trouble in the first place.

agreenknight, I once told myself that I would wait till marriage, but that lasted a whole five minutes.

Yeah, you have to be careful with some of these qigong books, because a lot of them are just a bunch of bull****. Best thing is to find others who write about stuff that try to include Western scientific knowledge within it.

[agreenknight]

My experience is with woman, is that I talk to them, then a few months later they have a boyfriend. This is what happens with the young ladies I meet at church anyway. I tell you what, it's there loss. Obviousily I must not be attractive enough. When I find woman on the internet and tell them I'm scizophrenic, well I don't hear from them again. I'm not to cocky funny, more satiristic kind of hummor, or impressionic.

Well, I tell you, I understand. That's why I'm careful, about where I go. It's also for very practical reasons, right now I'm living with my parents and going to college. Most men meet woman at parties which I rarely go to. Once I'm out of college, and have my own care, well it will be easier to get my own place. Then I might be ready to get married.

You know what's interesting I remember a bible verse that mentions making love to a harlot, and it says that's letting your strength to go others. Hmm..

[daodejing]

So........... just to clarify here. The conservation of seminal fluids does not mean abstinence from the sexual act, unless you're a buddhist monk. Some older daoist texts reccommend that a man have as much sex as possible but that instead of ejaculation he uses the energy generated by the practice to transform the jing he would have lost into qi, to guide that qi up the chong mai to nourish the shen, and to refine the shen emptiness. Some say this is the quickest method to enlightenment. It's not that you can't ejaculate ever, but that you should only ejaculate in one or two out of every ten sexual encounters. Some of the ancients said that the key to longevity for a man was to have sex with as many young woman as he possibly could without ejaculating, at least ten a day. Others say the method to enlightenment involves monagamy and a cultivated spiritual and sex relationship with one's wife. I tend to agree with the latter training method, though I'm not opposed to the former training method. :)

It has been said that it takes seven years to know a womans body, another seven years to comprehend her mind, and seven more beyond that fathom her shen.

Choosing abstinence while you're in a relationship with a woman is just kind of silly in my opinion. However, abstaining for 45 or 100 days while you're single and doing a qigong practice such as the yi jin jing can be very helpful.

[zachsan]

that's funny. for me, it seems to be that i can understand her body in 30 seconds, and understand her mind in, well, never.

shen... does that mean understanding her period? cuz i don't even want to go there.

[agreenknight]

Well, I'm not in a relationship, so... I want to take things slowly, get to know the person. By the way, thing with polygomy how would one support so many wives? Generally, in America, it is not an accepted practice. How much time do you want to spend on women, anyway? Very few woman can keep there end of the conversation up with me.

[zachsan]

yeah, the wives here want more money and more time, so in america, not only is in frowned upon, but it's not practical. some mormons have managed it, though.

i think it's a shame, really. women accuse us of being afraid to marry them - well, i'm sure we'd be a lot less hesitant to marry if they weren't so exclusive about the whole marriage thing.

[agreenknight]

I have heard it said that whom you marry is the biggest decision in your life. It's not that i'm opposed to sex in general, it's that I believe it should be till after marriage that is engaged in. My father told me it's all fun and games till someone get's pregnant.

Thing is do you want to have sex with that many woman. Are they worth your time? Aren't there other activities that can be just as worth your time.

I was thinking, my grandmother lived a pretty ripe old age, atleast in america 70. She gardened alot.

I know alot of old scouters that keep doing scouting into old age. I think it's because they have purpose, and keep themselves busy. Also being with younger people helps to keep them young.

[MenteReligieuse]

Heard somewhere the more you ejaculate, the more fertile your sperm gets (it also helps avoid prostate cancer)...so...shouldn't it be the more you ejaculate the better ur jing will be?

Omg I just like to hear the word "jing" .... omg its so funny.

ps : This was the conclusion of a recent medical study...I'll try to find it on the net if you want.

[Shaolin_Disciple_8]

I got a problem. I really prefer sexual act than the masturbation. Masturbation is like for the losers who cant get a woman. masturbation is for the sex's slaves. I want to control myself. I want to increase my Qi with Qi Gong exercises but I dont want to avoid ejaculations for ever. That thing in the doc's post like having seminal stones or yellowish sperm thats giving me the creeps lol. And I don't want to stay a monk if i become one someday. I wanna start a family and all. But everytimes I see a girl I like I can't do things with her because this is not correct for me because she's not "THE ONE". It would be a sexual misconduct to go with a girl only for his body. I need a love context. Am I going to have only masturbation for solution until i find the one!? Well, that's my problem. Dont necessary to reply on this. I don't need advices, I think meditation and reflexion is always the better way.

So what is a good number of times/a week or two weeks... of masturbation to be healthy? The thing for the prostate cancer is recommending more than five times a week. Hehe ;-) No this is too much for me and my Qigong practice. Give me just an indication to dont have seminal stones and yellow sperm.

[zachsan]

that sounds like it should be an 80's soft rock song... "i need a love context"... LOL..... i can even hear the tune in my head....

[Shaolin_Disciple_8]

beautiful song too..

[Shaolin_Disciple_8]

Well zachsan, if you don't like "love context", i could use "wait until marriage" or simply one of the buddhism precepts!

[xing_jian108]

You also said: "It would be a sexual misconduct to go with a girl only for his body."

Go with a GIRL for HIS body? What kind of girl is this? Yeah, that's a big sexual misconduct. Whoa!

[Shaolin_Disciple_8]

LOL sorry for this mistake. In french we have to conjugate the object pronoun (his/her) with the thing (body). Sometimes, well, often, I make mistakes like this one.

It would be a sexual misconduct to go with a girl only for her body. *

[xing_jian108]

Understandable...

In spoken Chinese you can't tell a difference in "he, him" or "she, her". It is both "ta" in the first tone. So it's really impossible to make this mistake.

But if you were studying Chinese and you wrote this sentence in Chinese you could easily make the same mistake. Because the characters are different, even though pronounced exactly the same. You just have to watch the character radical. It shows male or female there.

Anyway, I just caught that and thought it was funny. But understandable. Don't say sorry.

[Shaolin_Disciple_8]

Yeah of course, chinese grammar rocks! There is only the tones that are making me troubles. Well I try to practice everyday ten characters and so more pinyin words. I'm going in china only in two years I have a lot of time to learn.

Back to topic:

So what is a good number of times/a week or two weeks... of masturbation to be healthy? The thing for the prostate cancer is recommending more than five times a week. Hehe ;-) No this is too much for me and my Qigong practice. Give me just an indication to dont have seminal stones and yellow sperm.

[daodejing]

Dude here it is, straight from one of my most recent lectures, because frankly "how much sexual activity is too much" is an entirely relative question.

So here we go, the definitive answer to the relative question. If your lower back hurts the morning after, that's too much sex.

[doc]

If your lower back hurts the morning after, your not getting enough training, lol...

[Shaolin_Disciple_8]

My back hurts since 6 months ago, you think it's too much sex than hard training? ;-)

[juszczec]

Originally posted by cassius


"Man have sex ten times in one night, he die"

Maybe from surprise.

Mark

[daodejing]

If your lower back is sore, and you suffer a dull aching pain, and you can't think of a physical injury that caused it. Its probably from kidney qi deficiency, which is caused by any number of things (one of which can be excessive sexual activity).

But the low back and knee pain you get from kidney qi deficiency is very different from the pain you get from tearing muscle and connective tissue in an athletic injury.

[Asger]

2. what causes wet dreams n how to stop it cause i really dont want to loose my jing alot , for ur info from teenage time till now i have limited my self for masturbation from 3-4 times a week to now once a week to preserve my jing, so preservation of jing is important for me to stored my chi.
Excessive testosterone or sperm will alert the brain to release the internal pressure in the prostate and testicles. Biological action of mimic testosterone or artificial growth hormones (red meat!) on the prostate, pornography, and sexual-associated vision/hearing/physical stimulation will increase wet dreams. Reducing testosterone level in the prostate area will kill wet dream. On the other hand, a weak parasympathetic nervous function in the prostate, which can not help secure (tighten) the prostate ejaculation valve, will result in semen leakage or wet dream too ( how about urinary leakage and wet bed!).
How to prevent wet dream from happening? you can reduce it but can not stop it. Powering the parasympathetic nervous function and reducing the sympathetic nervous function in the prostate will naturally reduce wet dream frequency. Eat more nuts, seeds, beans, fruit vegetables and fruits; cut down red meat and cheese consumption; have more exercises and circulate your Chi in your microcosmic orbit - recycle your sexual energy back to your brain. You are normal to have wet dreams 2 or 3 times a week at this age of 20 if you have never masturbated. But, you can reduce it by burning out more testosterone. In fact, if you don't have wet dream and have never masturbated to release yourself, you should worry about your testicular function. For a health young man, you can ejaculate 2 or 3 times to prevent your brain's testosterone negative feedback controller from locking up, unless you are very weak.



Ok. So eat more seeds vegetables and fruit, less red meat and cheese is what I get out of this.. I'm not into all these medical terms, maybe someone more conversant can tell me what is said here.


As for what someone said about nocturnal emissions, when I went celibate to help cultivate my qi I had to abstain even in my dreams. At first I was having quite a few sexual dreams, and the only way to avoid nocturnal emission was to literally realize I was dreaming and stop engaging in said activities. Usually at that point I would go off flying, or just wake up. But then lucid dreams are a whole nother can of worms..........


What do you mean lucid dreams?
Anyway, I usually spend my holidays training, and I have noticed that if I had an ejaculation the night before, me legs are like rubber and my spirit is vapid and lazy.. I can't seem to concentrate for longer periods of time like you have to when practising gongfu.
I never masturbate, have sex or in other ways provoke sexual activity. I want to build a strong spirit. So naturally it is in my interest to prevent ejaculations, but in the night it often happens that I have an ejacualtion, which is really annoying because it's usually around 3 o'clock in the morning. That means I have to get up, really tired, take a bath and then sleep for a few more hours before I begin with the morning excersises, totally enervated. Sometimes I have to give up because my legs are all but lifeless.

You say you could prevent it by being more aware and wake up when you felt you were about to have an ejaculation. Well, I thought of that myself, tried it and it reduced it.

The whole thing started only a year back, when I was 17. In the begining it only happened when I dreamed about naked women. But I had luck in calming my mind down when sleeping, so I only seldom if ever dream about those things these days.
But it still didn't go away, and it's not because I can't remember what I dreamed about.. One time, I remember I was driving a car in the countryside, and then I woke up feeling the contents of my prostate being spilled in my trousers....

Then I found out that it only happened when I had to pee in the night, and instead of waking me up, my body ejaculated, and THEN woke me up.
Ok, so I droughted myself in the evening and made sure to visit the bathroom more than once before bed.
That works really well! But it only reduces it. It still happens sometimes.

How can I prevent these spontaneous emissions to the best possible?

[LeiYunFat]

Hmmmm, I would say to just try to strike those thoughts from your mind or try not to indulge even when you are sleeping.

Something that is strange is that meditation sometimes causes me to have wet dreams. I haven't meditated for a month or two and I have very little problems when controlling myself. The only time I get a boner is when I have to pee. I am thinking that psychologically, I think that through meditating, I have successfully controlled myself and need not grip the reigns so tightly, as it were. Then I friggin unload in my sleep. Not a good thing.

And as for lucid dreams, it's like a state of sleep where you control your dreams can do just about anything. You can google it for more info, Asger.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

I only just found this thread, but I considered this whole thing myself nearly a couple of yrs back when I first found shaolin ( despite 12 yrs of qigong before and if that doesn't say something about other information............. :sarcasm: ) and then a little more seriously as I went through falun gong theorizing , practice and trying to understand it from their point of view .

What I came up with is that ejaculation and orgasms are okay . You can even maintain your iron skills ( normally requiring 40 days abstinence from sex to be safe) but the key is, IMO to at climax not associate it to a sexual thought.

For example, we all know that sex and ejaculation does things to your energies and your qi and again we've all heard about creative visualisation. It might even work if you do satori style sex ( and if not , it's just going to be that much better anyway ;) .....) .

Even with masturbation. I think when you're with a partner or fantasizing about someone at climax , you take some of their energy into your dantien ( which remains for a period and has consequences in that interaction) and it comprimises your own purity of qi by the unpredictability of intimately carrying the awareness of the other person's true spritual evoloutionary level and the differences in that to your own ( and deny you do it if you like but we all know you're human and this our nature .........it's healthful) then the negative consequences of what that means to you in personal contrast ( and the distraction that causes you when you should be reaching enlightments paths unfettered with these things for the kind of buddha nature and qi and insights and clarity that as buddhists we're meant to persue from time to time (and if we're "good" often do ) , that partner contributing negative jazz you only grapple with quietly and to yourself that their presence with yours produces.
If you could instead, direct your attention somewhere else, like a goal or an enlightenment, then I can almost guarantee you you'll be safe. Worked for me keeping my iron body strong anyway............... and as a bonus, you get clarity on how to get to your goals.

[LeiYunFat]

So while climaxing, instead of calling out "Brad Pitt" or whatever the hell else women like these days, you scream, "Buddha!!!"?

Your lover must not have been pleased.

And as for enlightenment, isn't it the Hindu religion to have sex for some odd years straight, thus becoming a god?

That sounds like a fun religion...AT FIRST. Then you start skeeting blood and it all goes downhill from there. I'm sure Doc can provide some medical blood-skeeting expertice.

[doc]

How can I prevent these spontaneous emissions to the best possible?
It's normal. Don't worry about it. How come I don't get questions like these? Dr. Lin has all the fun. And all the nonsense. Where does he get is medical information from....
So while climaxing, instead of calling out "Brad Pitt" or whatever the hell else women like these days, you scream, "Buddha!!!"?
Brad is such a loser. What do women see in him. Now, Buddha, there was an insightful intelligent and resourceful guy.

[LeiYunFat]

Brad has money. Buddha gave all his up.

[zachsan]

you take some of their energy into your dantien ( which remains for a period and has consequences in that interaction) and it comprimises your own purity of qi by the unpredictability of intimately carrying the awareness of the other person's true spritual evoloutionary level and the differences in that to your own ( and deny you do it if you like but we all know you're human and this our nature .........it's healthful) then the negative consequences of what that means to you in personal contrast ( and the distraction that causes you when you should be reaching enlightments paths unfettered with these things for the kind of buddha nature and qi and insights and clarity that as buddhists we're meant to persue from time to time
I went through falun gong theorizing , practice and trying to understand it from their point of view
much.... too..... early.... for this.....

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Your lover must not have been pleased.

.


I'm pretty sure I can guarantee you that that has never been the issue .............so much as getting them to leave me alone for a minute ....... really, it's great . So now I'm making you scream your orgasmic pleasures to my worship :eek: ............ cool ;) :D

Moving on though, I think you're missing the point. It's not even about buddha so much as letting go of interpersonal attatchment.

So what about $$$$????!!!! #$*&%*! Why do you men think we're not capable of making our own and need yours anyway???? Sometimes we just like you, mmmmkay :mad:

Lotus

[LeiYunFat]

Just joking about the money part. And I see your point now on attachment. You think that an orgasm will teach you this?

[doc]

I'm pretty sure I can guarantee you that that has never been the issue ..
LOL, why is it, that ALL women, seem to think that they're the greatest lovers. Damn, LYF, you need to investigate this further. And, let us know. Details. We want details.

Oh, and by the way LYF, did you notice that your warning levels are diminishing? Don't disappoint us now. Keep up the tradition.

[LeiYunFat]

Alright, I'm booking the flight to Aussieland now. But I think I might be easy to please.

Good cardio, right?

[Asger]

It's normal. Don't worry about it.

I know it is. I guess it's supposed to come out sometimes. To breathe the fresh air or whatever.
But then can someone tell me just how professional boxers can prevent it a 100 days before the fight? Abstaining from intercourse is not enough if they can't control their bodies during sleep.

I never heard of a fight being postponed because one of the fighters had an accident the night before... there must be some trick to it.

[zachsan]

asger... they don't. because getting laid, jacking off and having wet dreams have nothing to do with fighting. at all.

[master splinter]

i jak op nine time, my leg get tired, shaky, my brain get good imagination workout too, right arm strong. i lub it.

[daodejing]

Abstinence won't do jack shit for you unless you channel the energy you're saving. Without an outlet, or inlet, a channel for all the sexual energy, your just repressing yourself. And repression leads to madness and deviation, that's why you're losing your cool allready, and that's why the catholic church has been doing some terrible nasty things.

Look at as if your jing was money. Either you can invest wisely, and live humbly to build up a massive portfolio and become rich enough to do whatever you want, or you can become an insane little hermit with a small pile of gold under your mattress who's afraid to come in contact with another person.

There are plenty of ways to make love that don't involve losing your jing. BL mentioned one of them. Her post mentioned some of the better arguments for marriage in tantric qigong practice. The more time time you and your wife spend cultivating and strengthening each other, the more you remove the possibility of "polluting" your energy with hers. Love will purify you both, and you'll go much further than you ever could on your own, this is what is meant by dual cultivation. This is why casual sex is frowned upon in the practice of qigong.

But then there were the less ethical daoist priests who would just seduce a young woman, take most of her qi in the act of intercourse, then give her a bunch of tonic herbs and send her back to town.

While that method does work, it can accrue some very dangerous karma if you maintain your health and longevity by feeding off of others.

[master splinter]

what!? is there a thread on how to give/take sexual energy from a woman? i heard during action draw the womans energy into your tailbone? it works somewhat! my wife was happy:rolleyes:

[daodejing]

Trust me, you don't want to steal people's jing. Sexual vampirism is not as cool as you think it is, there are very nasty complications. I'm just going to shut up about this before more people start asking me how to do it.

[master splinter]

awww...... come on....... please.......

[shaolinstylee]

there are very nasty complications

lol, yeah, we call them s.t.i.'s here.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

This is why casual sex is frowned upon in the practice of qigong.

But then there were the less ethical daoist priests who would just seduce a young woman, take most of her qi in the act of intercourse, then give her a bunch of tonic herbs and send her back to town.

While that method does work, it can accrue some very dangerous karma if you maintain your health and longevity by feeding off of others.

I see how those preists would benifit from that. ;) As for the casual sex though, I think that's a trust thing. You need to be able to relax and detatch without threat of a fear inconveniently rising and bringing your mind and thoughts back . I need that detatchment for good sex myself so that'll probably explain why the whole sl*t mode doesn't do much for me. It's sleazier cleanliness this way anyway....... and No there will not be a report of any descrpition :eek:

B

[doc]

I want to hear more about this so called "slut mode" that you refer to. How often do you enter it?

[LeiYunFat]

Every full moon, I suppose.

But, the whole sexual vampire thing is starting to sound like a porn.

And also, how do I "invest" my jing? I notice that when I have a lot of free and idle time or have not been working out for a while, I will tend to have an insane libido boost and all that jizz. I mean jazz.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

The sexual vampire thing is more what I consider the casual encounter to be. We humans are animals and have certain animal energies that we can use to our benifit. When we relate it back to sex, when it should be most consuming and then detatch from it or use it as a media to tap into nothingness, that is some hardcore emptyminded strength.

As for the slut thing, happens often but only with my partner ;)

BL

[zachsan]

i don't think this sexual energy vampirism thing works for me. i always want to go straight to sleep afterwards.

[Paul702]

It's nothing to do with attachment or anything of that sort. If a man ejaculates, he loses the jing. That's the burden men carry. If you're going to be a household monk or even practice qigong regularly as well as have sex, you have to make sure you are taking tonics to help bring in Qi from other sources. The Buddhist methods of Qigong involve a lot of tantric methods for ensuring that not all of the energy escapes at ejaculation. Something involving visualizing an OM symbol on the end of your penis (I don't have my notes with me, so I can't put the whole thing). I figure anyone that gets to THAT point needs to pack it up and go to a monastery.

Taoist methods also include vampirism based off of the teachings and exploits of Liu Dung-Bin who is a famous immortal who did his share of womanizing and Qi stealing. Liu would hold off ejaculation and instead steal Qi from his mates. One woman tricked him and became an immortal. "White Peony" tricked Liu Dung-Bin by pressing a certain point on his body just when he was holding off ejaculation, she forced it to come anyway and thus she became immortal from his super-charged essence.

A good tonic pill I found over in China Town, Bu Zhong Yi Qi Wan, at $1.80 for 200 pills has:
codonopsis, astragalus, bai-zhu atractalodes, chinese licorice, tangerine(dried rind), bupleurum, chinese cimicifuga, dong quai, jujube, and ginger in it. Good overall blood tonic, clears the kidney and liver energy, and is fairly balancing. If you take it when you're not having a Qi deficiency though, you will get a very big headache. Can you guess how to get rid of that headache? Ejaculate..HAH!

[zachsan]

One woman tricked him and became an immortal. "White Peony" tricked Liu Dung-Bin by pressing a certain point on his body just when he was holding off ejaculation, she forced it to come anyway and thus she became immortal from his super-charged essence.
people really believe this stuff?

[doc]

The sexual vampire thing is more what I consider the casual encounter to be. We humans are animals and have certain animal energies that we can use to our benifit. When we relate it back to sex, when it should be most consuming and then detatch from it or use it as a media to tap into nothingness, that is some hardcore emptyminded strength.

As for the slut thing, happens often but only with my partner ;)

BL

Just curious, now that you mention it, this slut thing and partner and all. Are we referring to male or female? Human, manufactured, vegetable or other? Oops.

Enquiring minds want to know.

[Paul702]

Do people believe it? Sure! Why not?

Stay with me and I'll see if I can illustrate a tiny fraction. Most of us that practice Buddhism or have read the Taoist classics understand the point.

Once there was a giant bird. The bird lives at the bottom of the sea. Every year the giant bird flies 90,000 miles into the air to fly south for the winter. The mud quail laughs at the giant bird because he only flies a few yards in the air and he goes south too.

Did you just think, "90,000 miles is beyond the earth's orbit"? or that maybe birds don't live at the bottom of the ocean?

In my head, there are no questions..I saw something.

Stories about immortals and such are similar. They teach something. Because I know the methods, when I was told the story, I saw White Peony, pressing the acupressure spot between Liu's anus and testicles which forces him to ejaculate. The story can't explain what Peony was going through having Liu vamp her Qi, BUT if you do understand, you'll understand why she had to force him to release. So there is a lesson to the story. Or it's just a story. Depends on who is reading it.

Maybe when you take those first steps into the Buddha's path, find yourself reborn in Christ, begin your search for the Tao, or take the red pill, these kinds of subjects will make more sense. Or not. It's up to you. The same energy you spend posting disagreements could probably be spent losing the attachments that make you think you need proof of things. BUT those attachments to science and proof are good because they're familiar, easy..requiring nothing more of you than to say "prove it to me." I understand being like that because I was that way once. Stepping into the unknown? Why should I? Is it gonna pay the bills? Is it gonna give me miraculous power? The unknown doesn't like to be ignored though. It found me and didn't take no for an answer. I reached powerlessness.

If nothing else, i hope I got a chuckle out of ya..lol:)

Amituofo!

[master splinter]

i believe you sir........i really do...........no really.

[zachsan]

i think they're great as stories. you just presented it as truth. and yes, there is a difference.

"the red pill"... oh man.

[daodejing]

Didn't that bird start out as a giant fish in the north sea before it grew wings and took off and flew 90,000 li?

If that's the story I'm thinking of, you're all right, but we should recognize the importance of metaphor in the taoist classics.

[LeiYunFat]

Immortals? I don't want to hear about old people having sex. Ugh.

[master splinter]

why not, dentures can be a pain but when granny takes em off....well thats another story. protien shake anyone?

[daodejing]

Incidentally, that formula given earlier was mostly lung qi and spleen qi tonics, with additional herbs for regulating stagnant qi and tonifying/moving blood.

If you're getting headaches from it, not only should you stop taking it, but you may have some problems with liver yin deficiency.

[daodejing]

*smacks self in face* yeah, bu zhong yi qi tang, chiefly for spleen and stomach deficiency. If you're oversexed you should be taking a kidney tonic, not a spleen qi tonic.

[master splinter]

ephedra,ephedra,ephedra,ephedra,ephedra,ma huang, ma huang ma huang, green tea, green tea, green tea, heart attack heart attack heart attack, boy, i sure would love to learn how to make tonics and stuff, that would be so fu**ing awesome DUUUUUDE! tcm is cool. i dont care what anyone says.

[Zhao Yun]

I find this thread, as well as the focus of thought within it to be fascinating, as well as pivotal. Sex is at the core of our genetic human nature, as well as an essential part of spirituality... but it is also a major factor in the flow of our chi. I think then that it is important for us to study its affect on our chi, and how we might be able to better improve our sex, to improve our lives. Sex is one of the things most people spend most of their time thinking about, and the least of their time practicing correctly.

I believe that because of the natural tendency of women to absorb yang energy (such as for fertilization of the egg by drawing the male yang energy into the womb) women live longer than men. The husband dies sooner because the wife has spent their lives together slowly draining him of energy, that is, unless he is a master, and has learned to either control or conserve his vital essence.

I would like to quote a paragraph from a website. You can read it fully here: http://www3.la.psu.edu/textbooks/PM-China/ch7_main.htm

"Daoists tended to regard men as being in greater danger of suffering from a weakening of their yang energies than were women from a weakening of their yin energies. Therefore, for men to have sex with women was a primary way of recharging their yang energies via contact with female yin energy. Sexual union with men would also be beneficial for women, enhancing their yin energies, though women were generally considered to be much stronger than men when it came to retaining their vital energies. So, in this way of thinking, men needed women more than women needed men. As Wang Ping explains:
In [D]aoist sexual alchemy, human bodies become symbolic furnaces where elixir could be extracted through sexual union between yin and yang. This practice was later turned into cai yin shu, a sheer harvesting of yin from female bodies through intercourse. A man gathered or stole yin from as many women as possible to repair his broken yang until he gained health, longevity, and even immortality. (Wang Ping, Aching for Beauty: Footbinding in China [Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 2000], p. 92)

At a pragmatic level, of course, sexual "training" with various partners is likely to have had more of an appeal to men than to women. Before you decide to skip steps 1-3 and get started right away on sexual training, be aware that such training was rigorous and bore little resemblance to modern recreational sex. Indeed such sexual training was more like a battle in which men and women sought to obtain each other's bodily fluids and essences. In this battle, to attain orgasm was to go down to defeat (especially for men; in this view, women suffered much less of a loss from orgasms). Insofar as people today might regard sexual activities as an aid to good health, the physical and psychological release of orgasm is usually a major beneficial component. In Daoist sexual training, precisely the opposite was the case. Especially for men, ejaculation was the road to a feeble and short life.

The actual details of the techniques varied, but the basic idea was for men to engage in sexual intercourses with one or more women (one text recommends 10 per day) and attain a high degree of excitement without ejaculation. This process cultivates sexual energy (jing 精) as a man absorbs as much yin as possible without relinquishing any of his yang. The additional yin strengthens him by further enhancing his store of yang vitality.

A slight variation might involve a man having sexual intercourse with one woman such that she has a succession of orgasms but he has none. Suppose that such a couple were to start this process and not stop, orgasm after orgasm (for her only). There would be no long-term effect on the woman. For the man, however--according to one training manual--the following benefits would accrue from his partner's orgasms 1-9: 1) his voice becomes clear; 2) his skin is clarified; 3) his eyes and ears become acute; 4) his bones and connective tissues are strengthened; 5) his buttocks and groin becomes tight; 6) the vessels carrying blood and qi open up; 7) life-long diseases are cured; 8) his lifespan is extended; 9) he attains immortality. Good luck guys--and remember not to ejaculate!

In another variation of this basic idea, a man could indeed ejaculate, at least by contemporary understandings of this action. Suppose that a couple begins a training session and the man continues for a very long time without orgasm. But then, the moment of his climax approaches and his partner presses hard on his urethra between the scrotum and the anus just at the moment of ejaculation. This pressing will divert the seminal fluid into the bladder. Although the fluid thus diverted would eventually leave the body through urination, Daoists regarded it has having been "conserved." The entire process was thought to circulate yang energy, via jing, throughout a man's body, eventually nourishing his brain. (For those interested in the technical term for this practice, it is huanjing bunao shuo 還精補脳説, which literally means something like "the theory of the circulation of jing enhancing the brain".)"


I am curious if any of you are familiar with the technique of conserving the energy, and recirculating jing to nourish the brain. I would also like to raise several other questions regarding wet dreams, and sexual vampirism.

It was said that sexual vampirism is karmically bad. I could not agree more whole heartedly. It is a negative act to misuse the innocence of the spirit to steal the energy of others without their knowledge, but I do not feel it is negative to share and even take the energy, if it is given with a blessing. Perhaps that is being redundant, and not what you had in mind when you meant sexual vampirism.

Mostly, I am curious why there has been so much discussion on the reality of lucid dreaming, and its affect on the libido, but little to no talk of the astral. Surely with people on this forum being trained with various styles of forms of energy work, there are those of you who are familiar with the astral. Beyond that, I am curious what the opinions are of the way in which energy is shared or vamped between people who are making love with their energy, but not physically present in the same room. I do not mean necessarily having their consciousness out of body, but focusing and feeling the energy on the other in a conscious state. Does this cause the jing energy to be burned in quite the same way, or does all forms of non physical lovemaking raise the jing upwards, turning it into chi and shen. Is the unity of the spirit empowering in purity, rather than depleting? Am I alone in my experiences here? I should hope not, but perhaps this is a subject that is considered most private to people, and thus not privvy to sharing on a public forum. In any case, I would love feedback on the issue.

Best regards.

--Greg

[LeiYunFat]

Nice first post. I have no experience with this. I just head of sexual vamprism just now, aside from several past porns that have dealt with it.

Heh, those sucked.

[shaolinstylee]

Welcome, and nice post.

[zachsan]

whatever happened to just enjoying a good lay?

[daodejing]

To clarify what I meant by sexual vampirism, I meant the specific predatory attempt, whether performed by a man, woman, or spirit, to seduce a person and engage them sexually for the sole purpose of stealing essence and or energy.

As for the issue internal alchemy, in my experience, one can engage in sex, and ejaculate, without depleting one's self. It is a simple matter of redirecting the energy which is released during an ejaculation.

One method, is pressing on Huiyin (ren 1, the perineum) and thus redirecting one's jing.

Another, is to draw all of one's energy inward and upward throughout the orgasm and for several minutes after the orgasm. Not only does this method prolong one's orgasm significantly, but leading the energy directly through the spinal cord into the brain is quite beneficial to most meditative practices.

Needless to say, the latter form can be used to energize the shen of both partners to a great degree, especially by supplementing the practice of coitus by drawing in additional energy from heaven and earth.

As for all things astral, I don't beleive I've traveled the astral plane recently. I'm still working on communicating with local spirits before I venture that far out........ ;)

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Nice explaination Daodejing.

[QUOTE=Paul702]
Taoist methods also include vampirism based off of the teachings and exploits of Liu Dung-Bin who is a famous immortal who did his share of womanizing and Qi stealing. Liu would hold off ejaculation and instead steal Qi from his mates. One woman tricked him and became an immortal.

How then does this not equate to his lack of attatchment vs theirs????


"White Peony" tricked Liu Dung-Bin by pressing a certain point on his body just when he was holding off ejaculation, she forced it to come anyway and thus she became immortal from his super-charged essence.
QUOTE]

Now we're talking vampirism !!! Same thing as be conned out of it really .............. submission under duress or against will or something ???? Taking energy without permission or submitting it to someone under pretense is not a healthful fruitful exchange. ..................

but moving on;

On that last post I guess I was in a bit of hurry so my comment was just a retoriation of what I's said before. I know you do though Rich and I have a feeling you're not alone. ;) :)

Personally, I'd rather hear more about Zachs drinking but while we're talking about the "slut thing" and the "$$$ thing " anyway, Try this on................


You pick up a chick ( or a picked up by a chick) . The sex is so bad you loose esteem, or is sooo good that the poor suckers catch a feeling , so you either A. lol and have to write it off as a somewhat negative experience ( comprimising your qi until you're enlightened to the growth lesson or do it again again and loose more and more with a bigger lesson to find) , or B. you decide the sex was good enough, so you book a second ( or 3rd or 4th ) booty call and soon they're calling you all the time and , making demands, giving you emotions and thought baggage and repercussive dramas occur.

Soon, you have a more permanent temporary arrangement
producing what for what reason??? So how many ppl get loxcked into that type of dilema and either spend entire lfetimes dissatisfied or wake up to it later to realise the time the could've spent having some good love???
Remember, you didn't hook up with them because you liked their personality and were on the same wave length so much as because they were f*ckable. And realistically, you might not even have even spoken to them about anything other than direct small smooth talking tuning ............... so anyway, you get stuck inthat groove and begin to feel less and less satisfied and given then given how good and fulfilling sex really is when you're not laden down with this type of bs in your sub or other conciousness, you know you comprimise your climazx buzz and your after buzz both............... bummer no???

So you move on and try the same trick again and you end up sleeping with a whole bunch of ppl who A. are likely to get attatched ( because yes, you really were that good :eek: ;) :D ..........or they just needed the drama as much as you did ) and you never get the quality relationship , trust or sex you know you deserve. So , you get bummed out from all the pretense and dirty qi and you can'r fugure out why the heck is just doesn't work out . You're a hottie right !!!!!??? :confused: :( You might even make yourself sick .............literally and then add all the stoopid jazz you do after that to prove it other wise and what a f*ck around of a bs drama for a hard learnt lesson!!!!!!!


Okay..................

So scene 2 :

You and chick babe are walking down the street. She buys you something ...........for no reason at all........... :confused: You go home and have sex to balance the score. It's apparently quite a good deal, so you see her again . She buys you more jazz and so it continues. Soon you come to believe that she does it because you're worth it , it's your birth right!!! You in turn come to believe that she could never have done it on her laurels. She then believes the same thing. You feel like a whore and sell out for something real and she feels like she doesn't deserve a good relationship or couldn't get one unless she paid for it. So here's this whole negative qi exchange exaccerbating itself and comprimising your peace and happiness. How do you have good qi and remain elightened when your head is full of these subtle ( or not so ) thoughts??? So anyway it expounds for you personally and get this whole fettered thing going on ( and the more you keep it to yourself the more it grows) and then all the things that go with that...........like illness and distractions and bad daily buzzes and low esteem and insomnia and lack of body repair from sleep and bad diet and lack of motivation and so it goes............

The thing with this is that you both set and accepted the parameters of the dynamic when the first "gift" was bought and received. From there , the 'programme' just ran itself.

"Does that mean you can't buy gifts for ppl you care about then" ???

No way!! You better godammed buy me a gift sometime but the difference though is in confusing the nature of the gift.
See, Imo when you give a gift , the whole nature of giving is that one gives, one receives and the transaction stops. You do it because you want them to have it and not because you expect it to make them care more for you. It is not a bribe or an exchange for obligation ( leading to god knows what feelings and behavioural bs drama neither of you want ) of any descprition , it is a gift. They care ( realistically ) for other reasons altogether. You buy it because you care..................... and because you want to express that you do. If you don't feel secure enough to do it under those terms, perhaps you should rethink the whole thing. Don't be proud about it, don't expect praise for it, but be grateful that you had whatever feeling it was that lead you to want to acknowledge it. This is your humilty . .........( as opposed to their pleasure despite the "apparent" great or smallness of whatever it was you gave them) and not on real terms, a prospect of return . Truth ( and not neccessarily verbal honesty ) begets trust ( and trust begets trust ( which still needed that truth initially ) and trust begets that great sex you know you want and if you're keen , the opportunity to turn into a physical stimuli good media to detatch from and acheive higher levels of qi and awareness and so on).

I'm sure this is really complicated for some of you to grasp, but I also know that someone will benifit.


Now about Zachs drinking!!!????............. need someone to relate to ha ????? lol...........;) :cool:


Blooming Tianshi

[LeiYunFat]

My eyes hurt from too much chlorine and stuff. I just read Steve's comment and left. Sorry, BL.

[daodejing]

Damn girl, damn.

I don't even know where to start on that. You got more issues than national geographic.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Figures :sarcasm:

fair enough, thinking can be b*tch can it not ;) :cool:

BL

[doc]

Truth ( and not neccessarily verbal honesty ) begets trust ( and trust begets trust ( which still needed that truth initially ) and trust begets that great sex you know you want and if you're keen , the opportunity to turn into a physical stimuli good media to detatch from and acheive higher levels of qi and awareness and so on).
LYF, you should read her comment. She actually does make some interesting and good points, and, to make it more fascinating, from a woman's perspective. Read into it. Don't just read it.

[zachsan]

if you can keep track of what set of parentheses you're in.

[master splinter]

*takes a deeep breath* okay im gonna read it.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Damn girl, damn.

I don't even know where to start on that. You got more issues than national geographic.



This is a really unzen thing to say, but you ever get the feeling that 2/3 of the world are brain dead and never knew and most of the rest drink to pretend they don't ( lol @ irony ) or just have someone to play with??? ( insert favourite tired innocent face here ;) :cool: ) Just lucky some us left after that find our way here :D

BL

[LeiYunFat]

I read your post. I got so lost. I grasped the parts about buying things in turn cheapening the relationship (that is, if you want something in return). And the dissatisfaction of clinging to bad lovers' flings, but I honestly didn't see where you were trying to go, or for that matter, how the hell qi had anything to do with anything.

[Steve]

This is a really unzen thing to say, but you ever get the feeling that 2/3 of the world are brain dead and never knew and most of the rest drink to pretend they don't ( lol @ irony ) or just have someone to play with??? ( insert favourite tired innocent face here ;) :cool: ) Just lucky some us left after that find our way here :D

BL


Don't understand your logic or the 2/3 of the world thing or anything you have posted in the past? And no one else here knows what the heck you are trying to say or agrees with you. So why are you grouping yourself with others to make your point more convincing or valid, when there is no such group on your side?

[shaolinstylee]

lol, great post steve, I'd have to say I agree....


geez, this seems to have happend before.

[master splinter]

finally! im done! ive been reading it since my last post! hey btl... no offense but,

are you a dude?its just that if youre not then women ARE just as stupid as men! man... i thought i was the only one who thought so hard about sex! so hard i just stopped altogether.(its healthier safer and plus... you wont lose your chi) now everyday i just tune into martha stewerts living and totally get off on that instead.

[LeiYunFat]

Martha Stewart is hawt. But I bet she likes to be the man.

[daodejing]

This is a really unzen thing to say, but you ever get the feeling that 2/3 of the world are brain dead and never knew and most of the rest drink to pretend they don't ( lol @ irony ) or just have someone to play with??? ( insert favourite tired innocent face here ;) :cool: ) Just lucky some us left after that find our way here :D

BL

You bring up valid points, but don't tie them toghether very well. I understand where you're trying to go, but I'm not sure there's anything at the end of that road.

Mostly venting is venting, but to those trying to interpret a vent as something else, it can be surprising and confusing. Recently, alot of my friends have been giving good buddhist relationship advice, and you reiterated it a few posts back.

Nonattatchment is the key to everything.

[daodejing]

Frankly, I just like the line "you got more issues than time life magazine." But national geographic seemed more appropriate in this context.

[master splinter]

yo btl, since you gave me some good chi advice ill tell you this, a woman is the most powerful being, so do not give your power away for the world, unless one can give you the universe and more.(faithfullness and dedication to the utmost)

i just thought it was funny that you and i (male and female) share some same viewpoints on the woes of human sexuality.

[zachsan]

lol... oh jesus.

hey btl... no offense but,

are you a dude?its just that if youre not then women ARE just as stupid as men! man...

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Nonattatchment is the key to everything.

lol Daodejing because that was my whole point. It's hard to detatch from something you A. didn't identify and B. never bothered to understand. It has to do with qi ( as opposed so much so to sex ) because fetter and distraction and ill or unsorted emotion all comprimise your abilty to cultivate it and the level of awareness you can acheive beyond it.

As for Steve's comment about walking alone...... well dahh:sarcasm: ;) ........ unless you consider what and where qi ........................ :eek: :confused: :cool: :sarcasm:

Rob : If you're thinking woe, I don't think we're sharing as much as think. Power isn't information, it's knowledge of what to do with it....... if no-one listens or turns it into action, you give away nothing .


Blooming Lotus

[Steve]

As for Steve's comment about walking alone...... well dahh:sarcasm: ;) ........ unless you consider what and where qi ........................ :eek: :confused: :cool: :sarcasm:


I commentted "about walking alone" ??? I did?
:crazy:

[onesp1ng]

Though I'm somehow unwittingly drawn to BL, the more she types, the less I get.


g

[blooming tianshi lotus]

I commentted "about walking alone" ??? I did?
:crazy:




You did......................... ( pause for dramatic effect here then :sarcasm: )

;)


lol@ onesp1ng ................ if you're talking about sex, I understand completely . ..........

Something my Bujinkan sensei said the other day about oneness with the universe and 'hmwk'( :sarcasm: @ the obvious sensei sir ) , brought this thread and the following comments to mind.

You see folks, for some of us, our daily ubiquitous aim is to be at one with the universe. To know it and to be aware we are constant part of it. ( Oneness with the universe has an extremely irrelevant and attractive magnetic iterpersonal qi biproduct all on it's own btw ).

So point is, if I myself have done those yards and consistently acheive that oneness and spend my time knowing the world that way and you have not ( or vice versa), despite all else "compatible" in that interaction, we just won't be on the same level of operandi and understanding. Oneness speaks for itself and doesn't as I said always even to be shared or explained directly. If you're not there you're just not and obviously that changes the whole dynamic of the interaction between us. You get it and you meet me there or you don't and either way, we're each where we are. Just luckily though, oneness is a solo journey anyway and tends to be complete all on it's own. And that's what I meant earlier.

cheers and good luck with it anyway.

Blooming Lotus

[shaolinstylee]

wow, this is still going!?

[zachsan]

just.... just..... try to say something that makes sense! for the love of god!

Just luckily though, oneness is a solo journey anyway and tends to be complete all on it's own.

.....ugh.

[shaolinstylee]

People look too deep to try to gather what is on the surface.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

and some ppl never look deep enough and stay in the dark. ................ just aswell we have Stylee to guide us then ha .



B

[shaolinstylee]

Geez, just when I was getting used to ignoring you, you come back to bite yourself in the ass....

[LeiYunFat]

Are you guys seriously that bitchy at eachother?

[shaolinstylee]

I just think it is funny...

how little some people get called on their stuff, and how badly others do get called. There are some very interesting things said, if you can read into it a bit... and I know I share suspisions about some things.... but we won't go there, at least not now.

Some people read a paper or two.... now they are experts.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Okay Mr. Emotive , but A. isn't it funny how that works and B. Isn't it funny how others altogether read a whooole lot more than a paper or two and still feel they could learn more again. :eek: ;)

Michelle

[doc]

Her name is Michelle. We learn something here.

Nice name.

[shaolinstylee]

yeah, nice name...

Mr Emotive and how that works?

I'm confused, I haven't gotten emotional about anything since I had to put my hound down....

[blooming tianshi lotus]

That's why you play Mr.Evil ????


:rolleyes:

All I'm saying Stylee is that it's one thing to have receive information ( even if it's only through your mediations and particularly more so when it's in regard to subtlties ) but sharing it or giving some back on occassion is a balanced thing to do. ........ but take what you need, apparently there's ample for everyone. :eek: :blushing: ............ don't worry, you're not the first person that's appeared emotionally selfish either. Caring is a good thing btw .......... getting sucked into a drama is not................unless you learn from it.

Now stop unleashing my mature side ........ the key was meant to be in subtlety!!! And you think I talk and think too much! :sarcasm: ;)



Lotus

[shaolinstylee]

All I'm saying Stylee is that it's one thing to have receive information ( even if it's only through your mediations and particularly more so when it's in regard to subtlties

so you "receive information" when you are meditating? Who feeds you this information?

you're not the first person that's appeared emotionally selfish either
lol, thats funny...

how do I appear emotionally selfish... I'd like to hear. I'm just trying to lay some hints for some people, who can actually read into what I type, not just read it at it's top layer. I'm learning this from someone I respect, who sometimes makes this a true art form... lol.. but maybe we won't go there.

Sometimes people miss the forest see a bunch of trees.

[LeiYunFat]

What are you, writting in code? The elipses tend to throw me off, but that's expected.

-500th post, baby!-

[blooming tianshi lotus]

so you "receive information" when you are meditating? Who feeds you this information?


lol, thats funny...

how do I appear emotionally selfish... I'd like to hear. I'm just trying to lay some hints for some people, who can actually read into what I type, not just read it at it's top layer. I'm learning this from someone I respect, who sometimes makes this a true art form... lol.. but maybe we won't go there.

Sometimes people miss the forest see a bunch of trees.



lol.......... what an opportunist!!! :sarcasm: nice word play though.

In emptying your mind you gain a diffrence awareness - correct??? As you come back into "normal" awarenes your insights get interperated with thought and words and concepts. It is my own brain that gives me those words in information I understand. I often make sense of or relate back that information through thoughts words and concepts that other ppl have used.

I have training any moment so I'll come back to the rest later. Something to ask yourself interim anyway.

B

[zachsan]

let me just interject here for a moment. i think it needs clarifying that shaolinstylee never accused BL of thinking too much, nor (to my knowledge), has anyone on this board.

doc, is it me or is this thread beginning to more and more resemble the "my personal opinion of doc" thread?

[LeiYunFat]

I think the accusation was thinking, or reading too little. Regardless, the ejaculation thread needs none of this bickering between SS and BL. The jizz thread is reserved for jizzing only.

[Steve]

Speaking of ejaculation, why do girls complain so much when it gets in their eye?

[LeiYunFat]

Because the sperm stays alive in their eye membrane and it's too wierd when they see stuff swimming around and nothing is there when they squint or look into the light.

I've asked them.

[doc]

Go out with fat chicks that wear glasses, and you won't have that problem.

[LeiYunFat]

The "grateful kind"?

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Nearly makes a woman want to develope an eating disorder and squint at her screen all day .....................wait a sec..............not likely boys !!!!:sarcasm: :p ( btw , if you had a stick it up your as* smiley, you would have got that one instead ;) ) :eek:

Now there's some zen ;)

BL

[shaolinstylee]

let me just interject here for a moment. i think it needs clarifying that shaolinstylee never accused BL of thinking too much, nor (to my knowledge), has anyone on this board.

doc, is it me or is this thread beginning to more and more resemble the "my personal opinion of doc" thread?


;)

lol, I like your style...


good catch.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

So we're all still on for after life hell date then ?! :cool:






:P


B

[onesp1ng]

It is my own brain that gives me those words in information I understand.

Apparently so.


So we're all still on for after life hell date then ?!

No, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be willing to try that sex vampirism thing on you.

----
It's just, you see, the opportunities are so abundant, endless even. You've got to be more careful... I, for one, am not finding enjoyment in this.......

g

[blooming tianshi lotus]

I hear that God loves an optimist, so it's all sorted then ;) :D


BL

[shaolinstylee]

You need to be invited to hell....


or just be around long enough.

Always remember George Burns.

[Asger]

pressing the acupressure spot between Liu's anus and testicles which forces him to ejaculate.

In another variation of this basic idea, a man could indeed ejaculate, at least by contemporary understandings of this action. Suppose that a couple begins a training session and the man continues for a very long time without orgasm. But then, the moment of his climax approaches and his partner presses hard on his urethra between the scrotum and the anus just at the moment of ejaculation. This pressing will divert the seminal fluid into the bladder. Although the fluid thus diverted would eventually leave the body through urination, Daoists regarded it has having been "conserved."

Is it just my lack of understanding or is this a contradiction?

[doc]

Not sure how it gets diverted into the bladder, when during this moment, the urinary sphincter is forced closed.

[shaolinstylee]

Actually, I've heard about ejacaculation getting redirected.. as in the second quoted post.. but not from pressing between the scrotum and anus, but from just "holding it in"...

[zachsan]

"training session".... i ought to use that one.

[doc]

Ejaculation can get "redirected", a concept that we call "retrograde ejaculation", with the use of some medications, more specifically, the anti-depressants, such as Zoloft ("so soft") and Effexor ("side effexor..")

A happy cock is not necessarily a happy cock...

LOL

[doc]

Did I use that word, and not get slammed by Satan?

Wow. I must be special.

[daodejing]

Asger, at first, it seems like a contradiction, but a deeper understanding of acupuncture will show you that alot of the points can be used to do very different things depending on the patient.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Ejaculation can get "redirected", a concept that we call "retrograde ejaculation", with the use of some medications, more specifically, the anti-depressants, such as Zoloft ("so soft") and Effexor ("side effexor..")

A happy cock is not necessarily a happy cock...

LOL


The other posts to me sound more like "qi" redirection but in the "zoloft" whateverthefck drug scenario, where does it go then then??? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[shaolinstylee]

I thought it goes into the bladder.. maybe with the drugs you just don't produce the same...

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Did I use that word, and not get slammed by Satan?

Wow. I must be special.


Who's sending whom to hell and asking them to run the show??? :eek: :confused: :confused:


Actually Rich , I think it's more a case of some ppl's belief you were actually the horney one himself . ;)

Anyway, didn't you say the valve to the bladder closed during ejactulation?
So where then Doc does the gunk go then if not out?? Don't make me google for crimmenys sake! :sarcasm:

[Steve]

Ok.. I had to look it up.... (cut and paste is a wonderful thing)

Retrograde Ejaculation

Ejaculation is the ejection of semen out of the urethra (passageway inside the penis) when a man has an orgasm. Under normal circumstances, ejaculation propels semen forward through a man's urethra and out the tip of his penis, rather than backwards into his bladder. This is because a tiny sphincter (circular muscle) at the entrance to the bladder shuts the opening to the bladder and prevents semen from entering.

In retrograde ejaculation, the tiny muscle that shuts the bladder does not function normally. This allows all or part of the semen to travel backward (retrograde) into the bladder at the time of ejaculation. When this happens, less semen comes out the tip of the penis.

Retrograde ejaculation has several possible causes, including:

· Damage from surgery to the muscles of the bladder, or to the nerves that control these muscles — This damage can occur as a complication of the following surgical procedures:

o Prostate surgery — Men who have had a transurethral prostatectomy (removal of prostate tissue through the urethra) or a prostatectomy (surgery to remove the entire prostate gland, either for cancer (http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8294/24263/210802.html?d=dmtHealthAZ) or benign enlargement) (http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/24479/11115/210801.html?d=dmtHealthAZ) have a 40 percent to 90 percent chance of retrograde ejaculation after the procedure.

o Surgery on certain parts of the bladder

o Extensive pelvic surgery, especially to treat cancer of the prostate, testicles, (http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/9105/23967/210797.html?d=dmtHealthAZ) colon or rectum (http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8096/31784/348487.html?d=dmtHealthAZ)

o Staging surgery for cancer in the pelvis or lower abdomen — This surgery removes lymph nodes in the pelvis and lower abdomen to help determine how far cancer has spread.

o Certain types of surgery on the discs and vertebrae of the lower spine



· Nerve damage caused by medical illness — This is especially common in men with multiple sclerosis (http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8320/24259/195804.html?d=dmtHealthAZ) or with long-term, poorly controlled diabetes. (http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/35072/35102/195721.html?d=dmtHealthAZ)

· Side effects of medication — Certain medications can interfere with the function of nerves that control the muscles involved in ejaculation. They include:

o Psychiatric medications — amitriptyline (Elavil), amoxapine (Asendin), chlorpromazine (Thorazine), thioridazine (Mellaril)

o Drugs for treating prostate enlargement — tamsulosin (Flomax) or terazosin (Cardura)

o Certain drugs to treat high blood pressure (http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8059/11159/195803.html?d=dmtHealthAZ) — guanethidine (Ismelin), reserpine (Serpasil)

Although retrograde ejaculation does not interfere with a man's ability to have an erection or to achieve orgasm, it can cause infertility. (http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/24479/48265/351094.html?d=dmtHealthAZ) Retrograde ejaculation is responsible for about 1 percent of all cases of male infertility in the United States.

Symptoms

Normally, a healthy adult male ejaculates one-half to one teaspoonful of semen during orgasm, but the amount varies widely. In men with retrograde ejaculation, the amount of semen is decreased dramatically or there is a dry climax (orgasm without semen).

Diagnosis

In most cases, the diagnosis will be made by a family doctor or by a urologist, a doctor who specializes in male reproductive disorders and urinary-tract problems. The doctor will begin by asking you questions about your medical history, previous surgery, sexual history and current medications. These questions will be followed by a thorough physical examination. The diagnosis usually can be confirmed if sperm are found in a urine sample after ejaculation.

Expected Duration

How long this problem lasts depends on the cause. If your retrograde ejaculation is a side effect of medication, the problem may go away when your doctor switches you to a different drug. On the other hand, if your retrograde ejaculation is caused by severe nerve or muscle damage, the condition may be permanent.

Prevention

Some urologists now are doing innovative, minimally invasive forms of prostate surgery that are less likely to cause retrograde ejaculation than the standard procedures. These newer procedures, such as transurethral needle ablation of the prostate (TUNA) and transurethral microwave thermotherapy (TUMT), are among several being evaluated by the U.S. National Institutes of Health for their success rate and side effects. Even if these procedures cause fewer cases of retrograde ejaculation, however, they may not be appropriate for all patients.

Treatment

Most men who have retrograde ejaculation do not need specific treatment. If the condition is a side effect of medication, your doctor may be able to switch you to a different drug that does not cause the problem. In other men, all that is needed is reassurance that retrograde ejaculation is not a serious medical problem and that it is not a sign of a serious condition such as cancer.

In some men, retrograde ejaculation requires treatment because it interferes with fertility. This treatment varies depending on the cause. If your retrograde ejaculation is a side effect of medication, your doctor probably will switch you to a drug that does not affect ejaculation. If your retrograde ejaculation appears to be related to a mild nerve or muscle problem involving the bladder, then your doctor will treat you with a drug — such as pseudoephedrine (sold under many brand names), or imipramine (Tofranil) — that improves muscle tone at the bladder entrance.

If your retrograde ejaculation is the result of severe damage to the nerves or muscles of your bladder, then it may not be possible to restore normal ejaculation. If this is the case, and you are hoping to father a child, a fertility specialist may be able to help. The fertility specialist may collect sperm from your urine and use washed sperm for an assisted-fertilization procedure. In cases of retrograde ejaculation, three of the most commonly used assisted-fertilization procedures are:

· Intrauterine insemination (using a small catheter to put washed sperm inside your partner's uterus at the time of ovulation)

· In-vitro fertilization (incubating eggs and sperm together in the laboratory to produce fertilization)

· Intracytoplasmic sperm injection (injecting a single sperm into your partner's egg to cause fertilization)

When To Call A Professional

Contact your doctor if you produce little or no semen when you ejaculate, especially if you are hoping to father a child.

Prognosis

When retrograde ejaculation is treated with medication, up to 40 percent of men experience normal ejaculation.

In men who do not respond to medication, fatherhood may still be possible with the help of assisted-fertilization procedures.

[Happeh]

Dear All:

I practice a simple qi gong exercise called Zhan Zhuang.
I would like to hear your thoughts on whether ejaculation
will negatively affect internal energy practice.


Thanks,
Butch

Yes. Ejaculation changes the.......configuration? Balance? Tone? of the body so that the practice of internal energy exercises will be affected.

Think of the paths within your body as streets. After you ejaculate, some of those street are closed down because of cave in. The road has collapsed making it impossible for a car to go thru that street. Ejaculation undermines the foundations supporting various pathways in the body which causes them to collapse or close up. Energy cannot flow properly thru these altered pathways.

If a person insists on training while their body is in the changed state following ejaculation, they train their body to be crooked. After ejaculation, the weak pathways will make your body stand and move crookedly. If a person practices in this physical state, they harden or exercise the crooked posture they are holding.

That is why you are supposed to wait after ejaculation. You need to wait for those pathways to regenerate themselves to their normal healthy state. After they do, then your body is back to it's normal erect and balanced posture, ready for exercise.

[LeiYunFat]

And how long is this wait period?

Studies show the relation to ejaculation and testerosterone to be suprising. Test levels stay fairly insignificant until about the 7th day, when test levels shoot up.

Any coorelation?

[doc]

And how long is this wait period?

LYF, concerned? How many times a day are you making your body crooked...

:chuckle:

[Happeh]

And how long is this wait period?

Studies show the relation to ejaculation and testerosterone to be suprising. Test levels stay fairly insignificant until about the 7th day, when test levels shoot up.

Any coorelation?

The time period is like anything else related to living creatures. It varies.

It might take me 1 or 2 days to fully recover from sexual activity. Sometimes longer depending on exactly how bad I was. That is me. Maybe someone who was healthier and stronger than me could recover in hours.

I personally feel that focusing on chemicals etc is a waste of time. Can you take your knowledge of what scientists say about testosterone and apply it to your life? I can't. I have no way to know what my testosterone level is at any given time.

That means, for real world benefit, I need something that I can check myself to see if I am recovered from sexual activity. There are such things available.


The next time you have sex, do an experiment. Take physical stock of the condition of your body before you engage in sex. I mean your entire body. Don't just look at it. Feel it up to see what your normal muscle and body tone is all over your body. Then go have whatever sex you engage in. Afterwards, don't wait to long or your body will begin to recover, I want you to :

Examine the area underneath and behind your ears.

Examine your eyes carefully. Eyelids, Size of Eyesocket, appearance of eyes themselves, amount of eyeball visible.

Examine your testicles. This one should get your attention. How big are both of your testicles after sex? Where are your testicles after sex? Do they both hang level or is one higher or lower than the other?

Examine your armpit area. This includes the side of the chest and maybe a little to the front and rear of the side of the chest.

Examine your hips. The inguinal canal region especially. Pay attention to how your leg feels. Does it feel sturdy like a pole? Or does it feel like a flag flopping in the wind?

Test both your hearing and your vision. Does it seem like your vision is fuzzy? Does it seem harder to hear things?

-----------------------

None of these things you hear about kung fu are mysterious. Because of the difference in time periods and cultures, the information is hard to get across.

It is shameful for some people to openly discuss sex. Some of my kung fu teachers would never discuss anything sexually. I can't even imagine bringing the subject up in their presence. Those kinds of people will tell you sex interferes with kung fu and then stop because they are shamed to go into detail.

Then you have the culture and time period differences. Kung fu was developed in ancient china where people spoke in flowery ways and thought in a philosophical manner. Every word they say and write has that kind of tone to it.

For a westerner brought up on computers and technology, that flowery philosophical information makes no sense at all. It seems foolish or downright stupid.

All anyone has to do is translate from old flowery chinese thought into current technological western thought and all that information would be as simple as the things you learned in high school.

That examination I described above is hard factual Western style thinking that will show you what the old flowery philosophical chinese are trying to tell you about the dangers of sex to the strength and health of a kung fu man.

[baiwanxi]

Damn... I'm not even sure where I wana go with this.... I'll just through some thoughts out there.

Way to go for that info you found on retrograde ejaculation Steve... Very informative.

So, I'm guessing, if you've already been practicing culivating the golden elixer and you just happen to have this disfunction then you'd be one lucky son of a bit** !!!

I must say though,,, after all this discussion on energy cultivation and bustin a nut I'm a little worried of where my headds gonna be next time I come down to it ! I'll be thinkin, "Do I bust or hold it in, do I picture this ever so desirable woman below me or Buddha, do I try to find that magic spot on my chode or do I just squeeze my cheeks hard as I can, do I try to concentrate on running the energy from my orgasm up my spine or just let go and convulse in relief"...

By that time I would have already done the dew and missed out on all the fun I had been workin so hard for.:disappoi:

Sorry... I'm just not that concerned with achieving enlightenment. At least not in this life time. I'll be happy with practicing strong, low stances, high kicks, good form, and getting my ass out of bed at 6 am to practice Tai Ji with my teacher. All that coupled with not blowing one right before I go practice and I think I'll be straight.

I love reading all the Chinese theology behind the whole being a man whore and living forever so, Please, don't allow me to put a dent in the topic !!! Hahaha

[baiwanxi]

Almost forgot !!!!!

I have my strongest orgasms when I'm on my knees and leaned back at a slight angle (hope that wasn't too much for some of you out there). Could this be because of this "jing" energy being released more effectively. I certainly feel like, durring these orgasms, I'm releasing more than just an orgasm, but qi as well. I ask for a second opinion because, unlike some of the other people here, I have never felt any feeling, physical or otherwise, in all my years of MA training and meditation that I could substantiate as "qi". Not that I don't belive in it. I know that it's there without seeing it just as I know that that I am, in fact, breating air when I take a breath. I even mastered the ability to have sticks up to an inch or so thick broke across my abdomen with the proper combination of breathing and flexing. (yes, I know some people belive you shouldn't flex. My way works for me and I don't want to open up that can of worm right now. I'm sure it's already been opened somewhere on here) But in all the stick